0 (0s): Hi, it's Dr. Weitz. Thanks so much for joining me for this episode of The Private Medical Practice Academy. So today I'm here with Dr. Brent Lacey, who is a practicing gastroenterologist. He's currently an employed physician in a large GI practice and is about to become a partner hopefully in the next year or so. And today we're also going to talk about his work as the founder of the Scope of Practice and the summit he's having called Marriage and Money MD. So Brent, so great to have you here. I'm really excited to have this conversation about money and marriage and just trying to figure it out. Okay. 0 (41s): If I want to have a new venture, if I want to join a practice where I become a partner, whether I start my own practice, whether I buy into an ASC or an endoscopy center, in your case, kind of your thoughts about how do you have that conversation with your spouse to start with, because obviously, you got to convince them that this is worth putting up money for? 1 (1m 5s): Yeah. A hundred percent. Well, thanks for having me on, I'm very passionate about this topic. I think this is one of those things that a lot of times we either kind of put our head in the sand and just kinda go forward without asking enough questions or, you know, we just, we just kind of let the chips fall where they may and, and, you know, just kind of accept that this is the way things are. And I think having really informed conversations about these topics is hugely important. 0 (1m 31s): So, you know, I know that you and I chatted about the fact that you are thinking about buying into this endoscopy center when you get to be a partner, how have you thought about how you're going to come up with the money to do that? Because I know that people when they are thinking about starting a practice, think about the startup costs. When you think about, you know, buying into, or starting your own surgery center or whatever ancillary revenue stream it's going to be, you have to have cash. So where does that cash come from? 1 (2m 5s): Well, my first thought is I would go deep-sea diving and see if I could find treasure in a sunken pirate ship, but that doesn't seem like it's going to be a very fruitful venture. I've looked into that. It says it doesn't seem to have a high yield. So, so, you know, what, what most people end up doing and what we will likely end up doing is taking out a loan for, for, for purchasing the share of the, of the endoscopy center. And it's, it's, it's challenging to think about that. I know I, you know, as a, I cut my teeth as a financial coach doing a Dave Ramsey's financial peace university, and my church probably taught at 12 or 13 times and dave takes a very hard-line stance about debt and, you know, it was like no debt ever. 1 (2m 49s): Not for any reason, doesn't distinguish between business debt, personal debt, mortgage debt, non-mortgage debt. It's all just, it's all just bad. And I understand why he has to take that line. That's the only way he can really have the integrity to push the message that he does. But I think that, that, I think that's an oversimplified view of things, especially when you start getting into the kind of income ranges and the kind of business ventures that physicians very commonly can be a part of. So, so every partner that I know of that has bought into the endoscopy center or bought into the practice has done so using either money, they were able to scrape together by, you know, selling, selling stocks they had or selling other assets they had, or they in most cases took out alone that they didn't try to pay back fairly quickly. 0 (3m 39s): So, you know, it's interesting that you talk about selling things, right? Like stocks. So, you know, I would like you to talk briefly about the concept of arbitrage, because if you think about it, if the stock market is booming, right. And I cash out of a position, number one, I may have a significant capital gains burden. Right. But also if I take that money out, it no longer has an opportunity to grow. Right. In comparison, if I take a loan, particularly if I can get a favorable rate, then you know, maybe I actually am making more by not cashing out my stocks. 1 (4m 22s): Yeah, exactly. And that's, and that's really the challenging part of this is that balancing act. Now there's, there's two aspects to this. There's the math aspect that you just described. And then there's the risk aspect. So let's talk about the math aspect, right? So let's say you've got your money. And just for conservative purposes, we'll say in an S and P 500 index fund growing on average seven to 8% per year, which is the historic average of the S and P 500. And then you're going to put it into, you're going to sell that there's going to be some tax event, presumably, and then you put that into the, let's say in this case, the endoscopy center or an ambulatory surgery center. And let's say that that's making 12% year on year or 20% year on year or whatever it is. 1 (5m 8s): So you're, you're now trading the growth rate of a, of the stock market for the growth rate of the, of the endoscopy center. But like you said, if you take the, if instead, you'd say, well, what if I just leave that money in the stock market? And it's growing at seven or 8%, and then I borrow the money to invest in the endoscopy center. Now I'm, I'm getting 20%, let's say growth, but I'm having a payback at four or 5% or whatever the interest rate is. And so your net is actually 15 instead of the net being, you know, 20 minus the value of the stock market growth. So that's kind of the that's, that's the difference between, you know, cashing out a position versus taking out a loan. 1 (5m 49s): Now that's the math, 0 (5m 50s): Well, hold on for a second, except that in that example, right. I, yes, granted I made 20%, I paid 5% for the loan, so my net is 15, but meanwhile, I didn't have the tax event on the sale of my stock. Right. And my stock is still in playable to continue to grow. 1 (6m 13s): Right. So now that's, and that's, that's so true. And so that's, that is the argument in favor of doing the leverage position of taking out the loan to buy into this endoscopy center. Now, mathematically, that sounds like a no-brainer, but then, then you've got to take into account the second portion. And this is where I think it's really important for couples to sit down and decide what is your risk tolerance. So let's say as an example, your, your share of buying into this ambulatory surgery center, just for round numbers, we'll say it's $500,000. Okay. It's, you know, it can be anywhere from that to a million and a half. 1 (6m 54s): I mean, depending on where you're at, how big the center is, but let's, let's say $500,000 for argument's sake. So now you have the question of, okay, are we comfortable with the idea of having a $500,000 loan on our balance sheet that is going to generate, you know, say 4,000 bucks a month, 3000 bucks a month as a constant loan payment that is going to affect our cash flow for years to come. That's an important question to ask and it sort of skirts past the mathematical issue. So you have to balance the potential for growth against the risk and the, the loss of some flexibility in terms of our cash flow position of taking out the loan. 1 (7m 37s): And everybody's a little bit different with that. And I think every deal is a little bit different also. So if, if you've got, if you're joining a group that has a 20-year track history, a track record of doing these kinds of buy-ins with other partners, and it's been growing just like gangbusters 20% year on year on year, that's a pretty low-risk investment. It's probably worth considering. But if you're joining a group that they've had three splits in the partnerships and, you know, because personality conflicts or whatever, and you know, you're in a town that the, that there's a lot of competition and new practices are springing up all the time. And you're constantly worried about filling your endoscopy center. That's, that's a different kind of situation. 1 (8m 18s): So I think you have to take each deal as it comes and look beyond just the math at all the different aspects, including your risk tolerance, the track record of the deal, the partnership that you're joining and your, your spouse's comfort level with what you're going to do 0 (8m 33s): Well. And I think that that's especially true. For example, if you have somebody who let's say is not buying into an existing thing, let's say you want to start it from scratch, right? You have some amount of a startup cost and you really have to have a thorough analysis of what are those startup costs. What are my financial projections? How long is it going to be before I break even? Let's say, I go out and take that loan for that startup cost. How long is it going to be before I can actually be paid that? Right. And understand that that spouse is on the hook for that as well. Because if you go out and take the loan right now, you're going to have to provide a personal guarantee. 0 (9m 17s): And if you're married, the expectation is that both of you are going to sign that personal guarantee. And I think that for a lot of people, there is this huge fear because they don't actually understand their own financial projections. And they can't really evaluate a deal from a purely mathematical perspective. And I think you're right. It all boils down to your risk tolerance, but the risk tolerance has to be based on factual information, not on your gut. 1 (9m 48s): Yeah. And as much as I, as a gastroenterologist love trusting my gut. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's not a good business strategy. Panic is not a good business strategy going by your gut instinct is not a good business strategy. A hundred percent agree. You need facts, you need data, you need analysis. And so if you're in a startup position, that's a very different situation than if you're coming into a, an area where you've got a 20-year track record of success year after year after year. And so a lot of times what I'll recommend for folks is that not only do they need to do their own analysis, I think it's worth getting an independent analysis. 1 (10m 28s): You have someone who is, who is familiar with these kinds of deals, either a, you know, a CPA or a, you know, a tax advisor or some kind of someone who can look at those kinds of deals and say, okay, here's what here's, what's, you know, projected to be, you know, your, your growth over the next three or four years. Here's how long it'll probably take for you to break even. Here are the places where you could suffer a catastrophic loss of, you know, your, your investment. And you got to decide, is that really worth it? And maybe it is. And at the end of the day, some people may look at that and go, you know, you know, the the upside of this is pretty high, but the downside is so high. I just, I don't know if I'll be able to sleep at night and maybe that just, maybe that is just not for you. 1 (11m 11s): And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. So, but when you're, when you're doing, when you're doing that kind of thing and taking out a loan, you got to expect that there's a potential for loss there. And you have to factor that into your thinking, 0 (11m 24s): You know, there's a potential for loss. I think that realistically, whether you're starting a practice, whether you have a practice and you want to expand it, whether you want to apply into some center, you want to add a revenue stream. These are all no different than deciding whether you should buy Doximity stock or apple stock or anybody else's stock. Okay. You have to really evaluate the business. And one of the things that you and I talked about earlier was the need to have transparency. Okay. And, and that if you're buying into something that obviously whoever you're buying from needs to be transparent with you, so you can make the best-educated decision. 0 (12m 8s): But, you know, especially as we're here to talk about in part the relationship with your spouse, as you know, I partner in this investment decision. I also, you know, think that we need to stress the need for transparency with your partner. Because if, if you tell the partner, Hey, I think, you know, we need a hundred thousand dollars, but we're going to break even in six months. And then we can go to Europe as we had planned, even though I'm using that nest egg. Right. And it really takes three years to get there. What do you think happens to that marriage? 1 (12m 47s): I think there's been a struggle, but the thing I would say about that, it's important is that a conversation about that kind of thing needs to not be the first conversation you have about finances. So that's, that's the first thing I would say. So I think it's really important as any, for any married couple to get in the habit of having congenial conversations about money, money struggles, money problems, money fights are the number one source of marital discord and disharmony in the United States. It's the number one source for divorce. Two. It is very contentious and it touches every part of our life. And so if, if you're not used to talking about money with, with regard to small things, then you come to your spouse and say, Hey, listen, we're going to need to borrow $750,000 this year. 1 (13m 38s): And I'm not sure how long it's going to take us to get that back. Just wanted to give you the heads up on that. That's not going to go well. So you need to have a foundation of good, positive conversations where you've talked about simple stuff. Like where are we going to vacation in the summer? You know, how much do we want to spend for Christmas for, for Christmas presents? You know, are we going to send the kids to private school or not? How often do we need to be, do we want to be eating out? What kind of cars do we want to drive? You know, when, you know, do we really want to do this renovation for the house? Or do we want to wait three years and save up some more money for those are the kinds of conversations you need to be already having so that when one of these conversations comes up where it's something really huge, like this, it's not that big of a leap? 1 (14m 24s): You're not going from no conversation to this massive shock. You're going from small conversation to medium conversation to this is just sort of the next step. And it's, it's very important to have that foundation built. 0 (14m 37s): Especially because I think that for a lot of docs, the opportunity to start a practice or buy into something occurs at the same time that they may still have a fair amount of med school debt. They may be considering, should I buy a house or to your point, we bought a house, we're renovating the house, or want to renovate the house. And it also comes at the same time that they have little kids. And so, you know, we'd love to hear your take on how do you juggle all of those competing interests when you're thinking about how do I, you know, invest in my own career by buying into or starting these things. 0 (15m 22s): And yet I have all these competing factors. 1 (15m 25s): Yeah. So I think it starts by having a plan. You need to have conversations with your spouse about what do you really want out of life? What is, what are your ultimate goals? When do you want to retire? What kind of schools do you want to send your kids to? What kind of lifestyle do you want to have? If you need to have those conversations about what your actual goals are. So you're going on the same page. The second thing is that you need to build margin into your, your life, okay? You need to have cushion. So if you're constantly living at X and just barely riding the edge of breaking even, and always worried that one little thing is going to push you over the edge. Like if your transmission, if your transmission blows in your car, and it's a financial catastrophe for you, you're living too close to the edge. 1 (16m 5s): And so one of the things that I always recommend for folks is if they haven't done this already, you know, and this, a lot of times people hear this and they start going, oh, no, I'm not doing that. Or I don't want to do that...is put a budget together. Call whatever you want to call it. A cashflow plan, call it the, you know, the, the number column on my yellow piece of paper that that shall remain nameless. You know, whatever you want to call it, but sit down and make a plan for how you want to spend your money. And it's, it is a very simple, basic math equation. Okay? If you make $125,000 a year and you spend 120, $175,000 a year, you will go broke. If you make $150,000 a year and you spend a hundred, you will become wealthy. 1 (16m 47s): And it is really, really that simple. So if you're making $150,000 a year and you're spending a hundred and forty nine five, you're living too close to the edge. And so when some of these opportunities come up to buy into a practice, to invest in a real estate deal, that the group is going to do to invest in some rental property in your neighborhood, whatever you don't have the opportunity to invest in that because you haven't given yourself the preparation to be able to do that. So I encourage people to live on sufficiently, less than you make that you're able to put some money aside to participate in these things. Like when I'm, when I'm doing my budget, for example, you know, it's tithing giving to the church goes right at the top. 1 (17m 29s): The next thing is savings. The next thing is, you know, all the basic utilities like your mortgage and, you know, you know, electricity and internet and all that sort of stuff. And then after that, it's, you know, all the discretionary expenses and one of the categories that's in there is saving for some future opportunity. I call it then the next asset class, you know, whatever's the, whatever's the next, the next thing that we might invest in. And maybe that's two, three years away. I don't know, but I've got money that I'm socking away every month, so that it's just sitting there in a savings account. And that way, whenever the next thing comes up, because opportunities arise. I got money ready to go. And so, yeah, it's not earning anything at the moment, but I'm ready, I'm prepared. And so the next time some opportunity comes available, it's there, but it's very important to have some kind of cushion so that when you have the ability to invest in something you're hamstrung by having no margin in your life. 0 (18m 21s): Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely true. You know, I moved from San Francisco to Louisiana for exactly that reason, because there was the cost of living was huge and the salaries weren't tiered and that merge margin was way too close for my comfort. And when we moved to Louisiana, we basically lived on my husband who's a urologist, worked for a multi-specialty clinic, his salary alone. And my salary went for the 18 months that I was an employed physician. My salary went entirely to savings to launch my practice and to build the building and to build the ASC. 0 (19m 1s): And even once we opened, you know, moved into the building, opened my practice, we actually lived on his salary for the next four years and reinvested every dollar of profit into building the next thing exactly. As you're saying. So I could not agree with that more wholeheartedly. 1 (19m 23s): Yeah. I think it's an incredibly wise and very prudent choice. One of the mistakes that I think people make very often is that what you'll find is that after medical school you'll have a series of sudden jumps in your income, probably a half a dozen times over the course of the next 15 years. So you'll have a jump going from residency to your first, your first attending paycheck let's say, then you'll have a jump, when you make partner, then you'll have a jump. When you start being able to invest in some of these other ancillary services or real estate deals or whatever. So you'll have times when you have, you've been, your income has been largely stagnant, more or less for a period of some years. 1 (20m 4s): And then all of a sudden there's a big jump. And the tendency that we have is to expand our lifestyle to exactly the level of our new income. And I think that's a big mistake that people make. And so what you're describing is I think a very prudent choice, what I, I call the 15% rule. So whenever you have a big jump in your income, expand your lifestyle 15%, not 95%. Okay. So a 15% lifestyle change is big. You can do a lot, you can do a lot with that, but, but start with that and, you know, save the rest, invest the rest, use the rest to pay down debt. And, you know, at least do that for six months. And if you get, if you can get through that and you have the discipline to do that, and you look around and you're like, you know, we're doing really well. 1 (20m 49s): We're making a lot of progress towards our goal. I think we want to expand another 5% because we've got this, this, these travel opportunities we wanted to start doing that we've never been able to take advantage of. Okay, fair enough. You're making a, you're making a rational, non-emotion, not emotional, you know, calculated decision, as opposed to just, yeah, we got money, impulse buy, let's do this thing. Right. So, but, but be intentional, make those decisions, but don't step up your lifestyle all the way up to that margin. 0 (21m 17s): Well, it's really funny because if you think about people who've won the lottery, like big amounts. If you look at the statistics, the majority of those people squander all of that money. Why? Because they've never had that money before. And to them, it's like, I'm a kid in a candy shop. I'm going to go buy X, Y, and Z. And I think physicians tend to do the same thing. And, you know, I think one of the things that has gotten people in trouble is the use of credit cards, because it gives you this false sense of money that you don't have. And one of the, I think, you know, when you talk about that budget and keeping track guests, nobody wants to make a budget. Okay? So even if you don't make a budget, I would offer that simply having a QuickBooks. 0 (22m 3s): If you're using QuickBooks for your practice anyway, for the, for those of us who have our own practice, if you're using QuickBooks anyway, you can create your own company, which in our case is Sandy and Alex. That's the name of the company we download from our bank statements and our credit card statements. Every month, our expenses you will be, and then categorize them just like you would any other business expense. We just happened to be the business of Sandy and Alex. The reason I'm telling you that is it's not until you actually start to look at those expenses, even if you don't want to budget for it, even if that blows your mind. And you're like, I don't want to be pigeonholed into having to stick to my budget. If you simply download those expenses, categorize it. 0 (22m 46s): You will be some founded by where, where your money is going. Because sometimes I think we, we tend to like underestimate how much we spend dining out or how much we, you know, we underestimate how much we spent on that thing. That only seemed like, like the trip to Starbucks, right. That people talk about. It was only five bucks. Except if you do it 30 times a month, it's not five bucks. 1 (23m 10s): Yeah. So at the top five categories, I typically see on spending is Amazon purchases and eating out. Those are, those are two of the big five for physicians I've found. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a good exercise to do. Just go through your credit card statements from the last three months and just categorize everything and say, okay, how much went to eating out? How much went to Amazon? How much went to clothes? How much went to, you know, whatever, and just put all, put them all in categories is going to blow your mind. The first time, you know, my wife and I did that. We were, we were surprised how much we were spending on eating out, like, oh man, we're, we can cut that way back. And we just, we just didn't realize what it was. And so until you, you know, it's like, it's like, it's just like, you got the patient who comes into your office and they're diabetic. 1 (23m 54s): And their hemoglobin A1C is nine. And he say, taking the next month and track your sugars and then come back and we'll talk. And they come back and they're like, holy cow, doc. I had no idea. I was tracking 300, 350 biggest four times a day. I had no idea. Okay. So they're, they're paying attention now. Now they know what the numbers are and you start to make some adjustments. 0 (24m 16s): It's no different than obesity medicine. Right. You know, Hey doc, I can't lose any weight. Oh. And I there eat anything. Okay. Well, keep track of how much you eat. Right. And then all of a sudden, they come back with this diary and no, they don't need that much. They hardly eat anything all day long. But when they're eating, they're eating things that are so calorie-dense like that entire chocolate cake. Then of course you're not losing any weight. Right. It's the same idea. So, you know, I, I think the thing in medicine, you know, is this concept of delayed gratification. We, we, you know, particularly if you have been married and in med school or in residency and you guys have not made a whole lot of money and you're thinking, okay, well now we're finally making some money now is my chance to do something, you know, and spend it and go places, et cetera. 0 (25m 12s): But I think that you know, just like you need to write a business plan for where, where do I want my career to head? Whether it's, you know, even if you stay in academics, but maybe it's, you know, I want to start a practice or I want to grow a practice or whatever. You're, you're thinking you have to have a plan for how do I get to that endpoint? You know, I think what, whether you're looking at the practice that you want to grow and ultimately sell to other partners as your exit strategy, or whether you want to sell it to private equity, I know everybody's going to go, oh my God, that's a terrible word. But yeah. I mean, that's one of the options, right. Or whether you're thinking I'm going to build or buy into this endoscopy center. 0 (25m 55s): But now I'm, you know, at an age where I want to be bought out of the endoscopy center, all of these things require an exit strategy. Okay. And your finances for how to get there are no different, okay. You can't at, you know, at the time you want to retire, wake up and go, oh, I want to retire in two years. I should have been thinking about this all along. You have to actually have a plan for, I think I want to retire at X age. And I think I'm going to need this amount of money to get there. And this is how I'm going to get there. It's no different than anything else that requires a business plan. And I think that when it comes to, you know, that relationship with your spouse, especially as you're considering buying and starting or buying into things, there has to be a plan for how that fits. 0 (26m 46s): Would you agree with that? 1 (26m 48s): A hundred percent and you need to be prepared for the plan to change over time also. So the plan that you make with your spouse when you're first married is probably not going to hold you for the next 35 to 50 years. So, because things change, right? So you get a different job, you develop different dreams. You have kids, you decide that one of you wants to quit working. I mean, all of those things need to be taken into account and you can't know that early on. So yeah, you need a plan. You need to set long-term goals. You need to start working towards those long-term goals. And periodically you need to come together and say, is this still really what we want? Or do we need to be thinking about other things or just come together and say, you know what? I know we talked about me retiring when I'm 65, but I don't know if I want to work that long. 1 (27m 32s): I think I might want to retire earlier. Well, how would that change our plans? Well, have that discussion. Yeah. You can always change things. It's your life? Personal finances personally. 0 (27m 41s): Well, but I think, you know, personal finance is really no different than any business. I mean, you really are running the business of your own life if you think about it. Right. And ultimately the issue is whether it's the, a business or it's your own personal finances, it's not set it and go, right. You know? Yes. You know, we can have a whole conversation about investment strategies and how you, you know, don't try and time the market. And it's really about long-term investing in all of these other concepts, but at the end of the day, whatever plan you have, whatever strategy you have to your point needs either quarterly, at least once a year re-evaluation of is the plan working. 0 (28m 33s): Do I want to stay with, to your point, I want to stay with this plan. Am I changing the plan? I will tell you. And I, I said this to you in an email between us. We spent an hour every weekend looking at where we were, where we were headed, and where were we on target? And, and how did we have to change that plan if needed. Now I'm not advocating that other people spend an hour every weekend. I'm probably a little more compulsive than most people, but maybe the only way you get to where you're going is if you're constantly tweaking it. 0 (29m 14s): How often, how often do you guys review your plan? 1 (29m 18s): At this point? So Catherine and I have been married for 14 years and change. So probably about once a year, I would say about once a year plus anytime there's some major change. So we usually review it at the beginning of the year. But like for example, this last year I got out of the military and joined a private practice. So big events like that, we'll come back and reassess, you know, as we're getting ready to think about buying into the practice next year and becoming partner big, big changes, you know, big-ticket items. So we come together over that. When we were first married, it was a lot more frequent. I mean, we would pretty much talk about talking about financial stuff. I would say at least once a month when we were doing the budget sometimes a couple of times a month, but you know, the, the more, the more you do it, the longer you do it, the less often do you need to come together because it just becomes more organic, just like anything else. 1 (30m 9s): And so over time it just became less critical to do it as frequently because we, we, we knew what we were wanting to do. We knew we had each other's best interests in mind, and it was, we were able to look at a longer-term time horizon. So it gets a little easier over time. I think, 0 (30m 27s): I think that that's absolutely true because at this point it's just sort of part of the daily discussion and not something that we actually have to have a formal conversation about. And I have to say about that. You know, people talk about the fact that the worst financial event that can ever happen to you is getting divorced. And it's true. And I would tell you that the way in which you keep your marriage sane is to have these conversations often in, in, I know so many people who have the head in the sand approach and that doesn't actually work, but 1 (31m 11s): Well, he comes in and it cuts both ways too. So I know some people will have their head in the sand and the, in the sense that they don't want to know about it. And they, they just don't, they just don't want to hear anything about it. They don't want to participate. And I know some people that have their head in the sand, like they, they want to keep everything to themselves, you know, keep control over everything and not share it. And I think both approaches really are problematic. So if you're, if you're married, you need to be working together. You need joint bank accounts, you need to be sharing information with each other. You need to know where all your money is and where it's going. And so maybe so what I usually recommend for folks is have one person in the, in the marriage be the household CFO. 1 (31m 55s): And so they're in charge of managing the budget and balancing the checkbook and making sure all the investments are going to the right place, making sure the bills are all getting paid, because they're a little bit more, maybe they're more nerdy and maybe there's more interested in the money side. And maybe there's a little bit more savvy with it. Maybe it's just less stressful for them. They have one person that's designated as the CFO and they, they come together, but, or they, they, they take care of all that. But then the spouse has come together for making decisions and the household CFO isn't the only one who makes decisions. They're bringing the information into the other person and the other person is required to participate. So you can't stick your head in the sand and go, no, no, no, no. I trust you. I'm sure it's fine. 1 (32m 35s): No, no, no, no, no, no. That is a recipe for resentment. And, and frankly, the household CFO doesn't know everything, whether it's whoever it is in the relationship, it doesn't matter. They don't know everything. And neither do you. You're, you're married. You're one person. You're one family. You gotta work together. 0 (32m 54s): So to that end, tell us a little bit about your upcoming summit marriage and money MD and why people should sign up. The link is going to be in the show notes below, but tell us a little bit about what we're going to get out of the summit? 1 (33m 11s): Oh my gosh. I'm so excited about this. This is going to be an awesome, awesome time. So it's a, three-day live summit from November 15th through 17th, and it's going to be, we're going to have three nights of speakers. We're gonna have 21 physicians and physician spouses coming to speak about various topics related to marriage and money. So we're going to be talking about communication, conflict, resolution, parenting, sex, and intimacy, budgeting, real estate investment setting, a long-term financial plan. You know how to teach your kids about money. I mean, we're just going to run the gamut. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be so fun. 1 (33m 51s): We've got, we've got just a killer lineup of speakers are going to be great. And so it's free to attend. Anybody can come sign up for it at www.marriageandmoneymd.com. And so it's, it's absolutely free. And if you can't catch it live, you'll be able to catch the replays for the rest of the week and it is going to be awesome. And so, if, and so this is a date night that is worth investing in and you don't have to invest anything. That's the best part. So like Sandy was saying, you know, divorce is the number one thing that will derail your financial plan. Nothing hurts your financial goals, like having to divide your wealth in half. 1 (34m 30s): And I always say, date night is the best insurance policy that you have against that. So this is a great date night. It's going to be so much fun and people can sign up for free at marriageandmoneymd.com and you 0 (34m 42s): Should bring your spouse? 1 (34m 44s): Absolutely. The more the merrier. So, and if, and if you can't watch it together, catch the replays together the next day. 0 (34m 51s): Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us Brent. This has been great. 1 (34m 55s): Thanks. That is a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Thank you. 2 (34m 59s): Thanks for joining me, please be sure to sign up for my newsletter below, I'll be sending you tips on how to start a practice, grow a practice, and then add multiple services so that you can maximize your revenue.